I am trying to get a number of ROAV members who have joined VA4wda as an independent member. I am looking into getting the club recognized with VA4wda. I have joined and I know of at least one other member who has done the same. Have you?

I was a member for years with River City, then later through the fall event. I think they can do a better job of lettling members know what they are working on. I would support joining them through ROAV.

I think ROAV has enough on their plate right now. They can't even keep up with what's going on as it is. Raising dues is the last thing they need to do right now. Besides that, what little VA4WDA has to offer will not appeal to the out-of-state ROAV members who make up the majority of the club.

Not only that, but VA4WDA is just as bad, if not worse, than ROAV. The Land Use Announcements have not been updated since 2009; VA4WDA holds 5 "events" a year, one being a canoe trip, one is a fishing tournament, one is an annual meeting, and two are wheeling trips; and the forum gets posted on once a month.

I just don't see the attraction. What can you say about VA4WDA, Mike, that would make the cost justifiable? What benefits can they provide?

Dan, I understand your apprehension. They have a new Board and seem to be starting to go in the right direction. Most of the members are based at the beach and seems that a lot of stuff gets done down that way. I think if we had a more active crew here in our area we could start to get recognized more and get some thinks done.
What I would like to suggest to the ROAV board is to have an optional VA4WD sign up with the MAR registration. If you want to join that would be fine and, if not, that would be fine also. I do understand that if you are out of state then you may not see the need to join. Currently ROAV is not recognized at VA4WDA at all. I choose to join and would feel better if I would join as a ROAV member. But that is me. The only thing ROAV would have to do is write a check to VA4WDA, with the members names who participated, and send it off to Virginia. If so asked, I would be more than happy to take care of that piece of paperwork. Can't be much work.

OK it has been over a week with about 100 views and only five votes? What is up with that? Do I need to add another option to vote on?

I would be up for it....just dont want to drive 4 hrs to attend a project on the beach...and drive 4 hrs home.

Yea I am with you on that. But we could do some clean up on our local trails, which ROAV has, or its members have, in the past. The bonus is that the club will get some recognition on what we do and give VA4WDA a little more fire power by its membership is doing to support the public trails.

I joined up @ the expo in Richmond. Hell...my disco won the SUV division and was 1 of two that was there. I was told then that they would welcome more ROAV members. If they get more members in the area they would be willing to do something this way.
I am working on two different "trail" outings, where not only some labor would be needed...but there would be time for some "fun" too. After things get firmed up I'll run it up the poll and see who shoots at it.

If you joined as an independent and want to be associated with ROAV PM me your information and I will forward it to VA4wda and put you on the list. Currently we have only two people on the ROAV list.

Mike can you have two club affiliations on record with VA4WD? I am already associated with HardRockCrawlers but would also like to be associated with ROAV.

That is a good question. I know you can join with more than one club but you end up paying twice. I will check with Virginia to see what they say. When you sign up I think you can input both clubs but the first one listed is probably what they will have on file for you.
In my conversations with Virginia they understand that ROAV has a diverse membership with many of our club members, members of other clubs, both in and out of the state. In my case I am not a member of another club and joined Virginia as an independent. I have now gotten VA4WDA to recognize ROAV as a club by having my independent membership in VA4WDA attached to ROAV as my club, (instead of being an independent). I have found one other ROAV member that did the same as me. So right now we have two members of VA4WDA with ROAV as their club.
What I would like to see is a voluntary sign up to join VA4WDA with ROAV as their club. I think it is a good cause and think that ROAV should get more involved and recognized for what we do do. After all it is only $15.00 to join. What can it hurt? I think it can only help.

Spoke to Virginia. Was advised that I was listed as independent. They will change that to being attached with ROAV. Ooopppss on their part. That will make 3. Any more lurking out there?????

Tdi-Mike wrote:

I think it is a good cause and think that ROAV should get more involved and recognized for what we do do. .

Just a question, Mike, but what makes VA4WDA a good cause? It's not a trick question, I just really do not understand what VA4WDA does.

Here is just a quick example. VA4WDA, along with their spokesman Gregg Jackson, worked to develop additional trails on Second Mountain in Rockingham County. Second Mountain is one of only a few areas that have a designated OHV classification within the GWNF. I know VA4WDA worked hand-in-hand with a member club to map out and present the plans to the Forest Service as well as NEPA and other Federal branches.

This was started in September of 2008. Today, Second Mountain is closed/gated at one end (rt.33 side), a spur trail named Dictum Ridge is now closed/gated, and for much of the Summer the entire mountain was closed/gated. I drove up Long Run Road last week and noticed the gate to the ATV parking area was open, but I did not drive back to the parking area to see if the second gate was open or shut.

Second Mountain is only one example. I have been running around these mountain since the day I got my drivers license. VA4WDA has been in existence since 1981. Off the top of my head, since 1995, I can think of the following trails that have been closed in Rockingham County alone:
-Water Fall Trail
-White knuckle Hill
-Kephart Run
-Dictum Ridge
-Hone Quarry (trail that went to Flag Pole)
-Riven Rock (trail that lead to Union Springs)
-Dry Run
-Lost Mirrors
-Shackle Foot
-Chestnut Ridge
-Shell Pit (@pet cemetery)
-Bear Trap
-Honey Run

I know I'm missing a few, as if that's not enough. This does not even mention the Lower Rawley/Salt Shed area. To top it off, the forest service is trying hard to close the Union Springs/Meadow Know loop, otherwise known as Stone Camp.

These are all trails that have been closed since the VA4WDA opened up shop. I just do not see where VA4WDA has been all that effective, or really, involved.

Now before you go and say i should get involved and offer to help, I want you to review the VA4WDA financials. This is why I dropped my membership around 2003 or 2004. Very little of the monies collected go towards legal fees, legislation, or otherwise keeping our trails clean and/or open. Yet, VA4WDA claims to help in these areas. I just do not see it. They have no problem renting a $5,000 tent to have dinner under (one night) at a 4wd event.....

To be fair, what has VA4WDA done?
-They have members out on the trails handing out Tread lightly info (as of 2008, have not seen them since).
-Worked on the second mountain closure, and sent in an appeal to this decision.
-An annual trash pick-up in the GWNF in April.
-Sponsoring member’s only rides at the Cove.
-2 rides at Oakridge a year, one combined with UNITED.
-Sent 4 members to WV for Tread lightly training in 2008.
-Have around 50 members trained in the Volunteer Trail Patrol Program.
-Have been the beneficiaries of two grants for Recreational Trails Program (not sure where the money went).
-Fought bumper height laws.

...all this since 1981. So after 30+ years of existence, at what point do you finally recognize the priorities of the origination have changed? I, personally, am only left confused as to what 'cause' these guys are fighting for.

Tdi-Mike wrote:

I think it is a good cause and think that ROAV should get more involved and recognized for what we do do. .

What specifically does ROAV do they need to be recognized for?

Let me ask that another way.

VA4WDA supports United Four Wheel Drive Association and the Blue Ribbon Coalition as a state association member. They support the Tread Lightly program and embrace their policies on minimal environmental impact. ROAV on the other hand deliberately builds trails and RTV courses that trek though rivers and streams which feed directly into the Chesapeake Bay. ROAV takes convoys of 30, 40, sometimes as many as 50 trucks into public lands such as Douthat State park, Shoe Creek, and Crabtree Falls, yet do absolutely nothing to maintain those trails. What specifically does ROAV do they need to be recognized for?

Yes Dan I too understand the downfalls of what VA4WDA has or has not done in the past. The problem with your thinking is nothing will get done at all. It is hard enough to get people involved with a group support. Almost nothing will get done with out them. What I say is, give them a chance under the new leadership. A group is going to have more say, no matter what, as compared to the individual. (unless you have a bunch of money) The larger the group the more what they say will have some impact on the government. It is not a perfect world but I am willing to try. I know you are and have. If you can find another organization, here in Virginia, that is trying to do the same as VA4WDA let us know. I will join them too. Otherwise I will give my $15.00 to VA4WDA and try to help them make some type of impact.

Dan...if I may?
I have been in contact with NPS, and this last spring, with the help of an equine group and a local scout troop actually spent time in the fire areas installing terraces and seeding. We also reclaimed some hiking/horse trail areas. Oh...and trash removal.
My intentions are to joint said "clubs" and TRY to get some intrest for working on trails on public lands. I DO intend to run for an office and ATTEMPT to get said "club" to actually get out and show that we care. If I fall flat on my ass....so be it.I'm shure it will take some time...and LABOR.
As far as past finances go.....I'm shure there are some questions to be answered. As a newer member...I hope to be able to track what goes on from here forward...and if there are no answers.... do my best to hold some feet to the fire.
With alot of the newer members...or 4x4 owners...."Tread Lightly" is what you do when you get home late after drinking with the boys so you dont wake the wife. They should educated as to not only the effects on our enviroment...but also to the public lands being closed after such actions.This should fall on ALL of us to point out what is right...AND WRONG.
In short....I am going to give it a hell of a shot!
If it all fails...I'll go occupy someplace.