Here are the forms the Forest Service requests to be filled out when doing volunteer work.

For Groups sv4w.com/fs-1800-8Grou...eement.doc

For Individuals sv4w.com/fs-1800-7Indi...eement.doc

Hey Chuck:

Maybe we can get a group organized and talk with the District Ranger (or whomever would be the contact) and see where our help can be best utilized. Everyone else can chime in and provide guidance if you know how to best get to the right person. If there are some funds needed to help the Forest Service keep a trail open, I would like to petition the club/BOD for whatever reasonable monies would be needed. We former BOD/Officers have talked about it for a long time, and we know the membership has been interested. What do you think? Now is a great time.

ericpmay wrote:

Hey Chuck: We former BOD/Officers have talked about it for a long time, and we know the membership has been interested. What do you think? Now is a great time.

Seriously?
The lack of response to a 12 day old post shows how much the bod/membership cares.
At the time I volunteered, you guys offered it to Dan but wouldn't give him the support he requested (in other words, trying to set him up for failure).
Now I don't have the time nor inclination to volunteer.
I hope you find someone, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Eric's post is from March, it is older than you thought. RNewman has volunteered to work on this with the new BOD, I do not know where that has gone since I am not as involved this year.

To be fair, the year you are referring to you and I attended a number of meetings and worked on a few small projects. We were budgeted for $500, I think we spent about that after the supplies for the fence and donating $200 to United. It was not much of a year, but it was not a nothing.

I think the issue lies in the type of club ROAV is, the members are all over the region and out of state. Most are not close to where the work is being done. This has not been a priority to most members. I think they join to attend events, and some folks only attend one a year. Some members belong to VA4WDA or similar groups and play a role in other ways.



I do not have a solution here, just giving my two cents as a member.

ukoffroad wrote:

I think the issue lies in the type of club ROAV is, the members are all over the region and out of state. Most are not close to where the work is being done. This has not been a priority to most members. I think they join to attend events, and some folks only attend one a year. Some members belong to VA4WDA or similar groups and play a role in other ways.

The problem is ROAV has no issues using the public lands for their events, but gives nothing back in return. Crab Tree Falls and Potts Mountain come to mind right off the bat. Over the last several years ROAV has hosted several events, annually, where they utilize public lands. From what I can tell ROAV has been doing this since 2003 when Bob Steel started the Spring Rally.

ROAV plays a role both directly and indirectly on how these trails are affected. At the last ROAV event at Crab Tree Falls there were ROAV members, who were being guided, going off the trails on to private lands and climbing rocks that are not part of the trail system. ROAV may not condone this type of activity, but it is a problem and it's a problem that gets our trails closed. The area these club members were in was closed off by orange tape. Orange tape alone is not going to physically stop people from trespassing on private land, or areas that are off-limits, but orange tape does act as a sign. The club members who ventured off the trail and onto this private land disregarded the orange tape and went off the tail anyway. When people do this, it gives the land owner, and the Forest Service, ammunition to use against the OHV community.

ROAV indirectly affects the trail systems because members return to these trails after the event is over. ROAV may not be involved with this, but ROAV are the ones who showed these people away from the area the trails, where they were, how to get to them, etc.. It's problems such as this that got the Conway River trail shut down -- too much traffic. It's not that these people could not have done their own research and found Crab Tree Falls on a map and explored it on their own, because they certainly could have. But when a club/group takes a group of 40, 50, or even 60 vehicles to an area there is an impact.

The good that came out of the Spring Rally(ies) is that ROAV supported the locals by using their campgrounds rather than camping in the forest, and taking a group (although small) to a local restaurant. Supporting the local economy does more good for our cause than sending a donation to some charity. I'm sure the owners of Ali's love it when MAR comes to town.

I'm not saying ROAV should stop taking groups to the National Forest. It would just be nice if ROAV took a little incentive to help keep the trails open. The only incentive I've seen, personally, was by club member Dr. Aaron who offered up something like $100.00 to the person, or team, who collected the most about of trash from the trail. Dr. Aaron's $100 contribution did more for Virginia Trails that any donation to United Four Wheel Drive has done in years. ROAV makes monetary contributions to organizations such as Toys For Tots, Hunt Clubs, Boy Scouts, Band Boosters, Animal Shelters; in addition to drilling water wells, buying grass seed and gravel, etc, so I don't know what the difference is. The Board of Director's went absolutely ape-shit (John Tackley, mainly) when I asked for a $500 budget in 2008 to get the Virginia Trails Committee started and to off-set the costs of trash bags and trash disposition (tires, appliances, etc..)

Additionally, ROAV, year-after-year, multiple times a year, gathers up people to cut trails at all the various MAR locations. I don't know what the difference is between gathering people to cut new trails, and gathering people to fix existing trails, but apparently there is one. In 2008 my wife and I planted 110 trees in an area known as the Deer Garden in the GWNF; this was after Chuck and one other ROAV member showed up to do some trail repair and trash pick-up a week prior. It took two of us 1.5 hours to plant 110 trees. Later, Chuck took a day, alone, to help complete a fence on Second Mountain. So it's not like it takes a lot of time to make a difference; it takes much more time to cut trails every-single year for MAR.

What I'm saying is, there is more effort by this club put into lining up pony rides at MAR than there is protecting what little public trail systems we have left.

How to correct this? Develop sub-chapters of ROAV.

I was never contacted by anyone. I contacted a local boy scout group and we repaired 2 bridges and did some terracing. Total time involved...less than 6 hours, and had an awsome cookout afterwards.
Doesnt take a lot to give a little.

ranewman wrote:

I was never contacted by anyone.

LMAO. You can't make this stuff up.

Actually....I recind my previous comment. I was contacted by one of the board members, and was advised I would recieve future contact. None has been made to date.
I regret the indiscretion.

ahhh yeah, that would be me. Won't waste your time with lame excuses. Looking forward to seeing you this weekend.

im interested and would be working in conjunction with another club but representing ROAV, but why in the hell arent we a member of VA4WDA

Besides a fishing tournament, what does VA4WDA do? Gregg Jackson still trying to get that land opened up on 2nd MTN?

well in my 20+ yrs involved with them. my local club has made the ignagural or how ever the hell you spell it . track at dinwiddie motor sports park for 4wheel and off road magazine. has hosted a tuff truck truck challenge at Richmond Colisium, and yes , the numerous fishin tournaments at hatteras, also a Bingo nite in richmond, and also your automaticly in united, and a plethera of land that is at your disposal, plus all the other recourses that are available, oh yea , and a casinio nite, that me personelly has gathered anything from snatch straps too winches or jacks to to kc lites, so if your still askn , its a hell of lot more than ROAV, i joined this club too see what else was out there, and i see see that where im from , you get alot more for you pay, ive expressed intersest in a board position to express it, and do have backers, i do hope that we look out side the box in the future.

oh yea, im drinkin rite now, so cant spell

oh yea, and since im a member of va4wda, we also got 80 acres write down the st from goochland, that my local club has access too , also buildind a rock crawling garden, that , i a member of roav , has tryn to get us access to on the side, but since the owner is a board member of va4wda, i guess that wont work , huh? get the land rover emblem out your ass and get back to your roots. THE LOVE OF PRIMITIVE ROAD DRIVING no matter what you drive.

Having a hard time making heads or tails out of your post, but I'll try...

I think ROAV was a sister club of VA4WDA at one time. I don't know if they still are or not.

I asked what VA4WDA did for it's members. You posted all the annual events VA4WDA did each year, but you missed one very important part -- where does the money go from the proceeds? Casino night, fishing tournament, members only trail ride, etc all cost money to attend, so where does the money go?

I was a member of VA4WD many years ago. I attended the Oak Ridge members only trail rides on several occasions. At the last one I attended I left with a little bit of information that turned me off to the association. VA4WDA had a HUGE tent set up in the front yard of the house at Oak Ridge. This tent was used for one night to host the chili dinner in. I asked, and I was told that the tent rental was $5,000. When I asked how they paid for the tent, they claimed "member dues".

We also had to bring our own chili. It was all mixed into a pot, heated, and served by VA4WDA. They also supplied some fixins. If I remember right, the dinner was optional and you had to pay more for it, but your can of chili was required.

The food was good. Nothing spectacular, but good. The problem was, they did not have enough of it. Part of our group (Shenandoah Valley Four Wheelers) got stuck on the trail (guided trails) and was late getting back to the dinner. They were not hours late, only about 20 minutes late. But they missed out on the food. They were told "sorry", but were unable to get their money back. We all went back to camp and cooked dinner because none of us were full and others did not even get to eat.

Now, it's one thing if this was a donation to the club or if they were trying to raise money for a special project. But that was really not the case. VA4WDA spent $5,000 on a tent alone to sit 150 people. VA4WDA also spent additional money on food and set-up. I don't know if they had to pay trail guides at that time or not. Either way, VA4WDA spent a considerable amount of money -- more than they took in that weekend -- and none of that money went towards the clubs Mission that's posted on their website.

Was it fun? Sure it was. Was it productive?

Look at the VA4WDA website. Look at "What We Do". Look at "Land Use Announcements". Look at the "Calendar".

Now, tell me what VA4WDA does to support their objectives.

You claim that VA4WDA has land available to its members. I've never heard of this. Think you can elaborate?

The Casino Nights, Fishing Trips, Bingo, etc.. is all well and fine to do. Those are good fund raisers. If I supported what VA4WDA does, I would consider attending. I not really old enough to play Bingo, and although I've attended parties where they have the Casino theme going and had fun, it's really not my thing. But if it's for a good cause I'd consider it. But I don't really feel I'm missing out on anything. VA4WDA does nothing for VA trails, like they state on their website, that I think I'm missing out on. And apparently what ever legislation VA4WDA supports on Capital Hill is not working, either, as we're still losing trails in Virginia.

I've talked to VA4WDA Land Use Coordinator, Gregg Jackson, many many times. On the phone, via email, in person... Gregg means well. But there is very little being accomplished here. Gregg was working on getting 2nd Mountain, an area already classified as OHV, opened up to included a more elaborate trail system. This has been going on for several years. I don't know where the Forest Service, NEPPA, or VA4WDA stands on the issue because there are no updates. All I know is 2nd Mountain went from being an open OHV area we could drive in, to being closed. 2nd Mountain is now gated. Also gated now is Dictum Ridge.

Now 2nd Mountain may only be closed temporarily, I don't know. One side (rt.33 side) has been closed for years making 2nd MTN one-way in and one-way out, and now the other side has been closed for about 2-months. So who knows the fate.. I know the hunters in the area have made it clear they are not happy. Wild Turkey Federation, QDMA, and some local Bear hunting clubs being the loudest. I don't know if Gregg or VA4WDA has been involved or not to add to the list of complaints. But what I do know is that in the last 10-years, in Rockingham County alone, OHV'ers have lost many miles of trails. White Knuckle Hill, Water Fall Trail, Green Hole, the entire Rawley Flats area (about 2,000 acres), Kephart Run, Shackle Foot, 2nd Mountain, Honey Run (and others in Union Springs), Dry Run... and now they're trying to close the loop from Skidmore Damn to Meadow Knob (Dunkel Hollow Road). If they close Dunkel Hollow Road, that will be the last looping trail in the area.

Now, please, tell me what VA4WDA does and why ROAV should join.